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Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

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Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by MaTtKs on Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:47 pm

As some of you know, I help out a bit over on the official Treyarch forums, and lately have been seeing some involvement with the developers over there.

With that said, I thought I'd bring over some of the recent posts from David Vonderhaar, who is the lead designer for multiplayer at Treyarch. Bear in mind that in the short time that I met him, his sarcasm and humor was quite obvious. Very cool dude though...and blunt.

Here goes...


*Italicized sections of a quote denotes a user reply*

We all know that Treyarch NEVER reads the boards and NEVER listens to the community suggestions, so why bother MaTtKs?

Wait a minute... TRICKERY!

I like to make Josh write me a report on trending board topics just for fun.

But, seriously, the stats in the Barracks isn't good enough anymore. We should try to do way better.

Personally, I know that when I am sitting in my giant castle on the beach in the summers playing on my 90000 inch HDTV, the last thing I want to do is be bothered to order my maid to wheel my MBP over to me to look at my stats on the web site.

Vahn

So what I am hearing so far is that you want a Perk that doubles the number of killstreaks that you can call at once, while allowing you to warp across the map and knife anyone and giving you a 100x score bonus for camping.

Got it!

Lot of good ideas here! My new favorite thread.

I am seeing a lot of what I would call the "echo plex." As fans of the previous games, we have drawn a lot of the same conclusions that many of you are drawing. Solutions to those problems may be different than any specific proposal in any specific post, but I'm glad we (generally speaking) want to go the same direction you want us to go.

Vahn

GoldonArRow wrote:1) This is my big idea for the killstreaks, make it to where for different classes there is a different kill streak setup. Like for your rushing class you have low kill streaks set up, and your Rifle classes the big ones set up. That way you don't have to constantly change them, kinda like perks.



GoldonArRow,

We tried this and didn't like it. That doesn't mean we won't try it again. At least one of my co-workers LOVED IT and he cried a little when I removed it.

It complicates the purity and speed of Create a Class, which by itself has to evolve and thus gets more complicated.

More directly, I'm listening to all the feedback about not having as many / complex / deadly killstreaks.

That feedback means that most classes, most of the time, have the same Killstreaks available in each of them by nature of not having as many killstreaks available at each of the key levels.

Vahn

We love the stacking as well as the fact that it can carry between lives. What I don't love is the fact that kills from killstreaks count towards your next killstreak.

That's how you get the guys who rack up insane K:D ratios. If those guys had to go out into the field and shoot people, you wouldn't see as much killstreak spam.

A great topic worthy of it's own thread, really. We talk about those 3 things a lot.

Should kills from killstreaks count towards your next killstreak?

Should killstreaks continue to stack?

Should killstreaks you earned survive your death?

Our current implementation is: No, Yes, Yes. But anything can change during development.


Vahn

duckmen wrote:no commando, please.
bayonets are infinitely better




Thank you for saying so.

I have this theory that an extended melee range perk is poor design.

It's fun to knife people. It's very satisfying.

However, I think if you making something so awesome that the other player doesn't have equal opportunity or awareness of your tactical advantage and thus it becomes un-fun for them ... it's not very good design.

When facing down a guy with a Bayonet, you could at least see the guy had a knife on the end of his gun. You were aware that he could try to attack you from range. The tuning was also different. The range was less than Commando Pro, and the recovery a lot slower.

If I could go back in time, I'd tune the Bayonet differently. But, having it burn a weapon attachment slot was a pretty big trade-off versus the Perk implementation in MW2.

Good design would force you to make those trade-offs. Although it's outside the scope of this post to get poetic about that, I've never been happy with the risk/reward or penalty/bonus dynamic so it is a big deal for us on the MP design team to work on that for the next project.

Vahn

ScotchMouth wrote:Kill streak 5: Turret Operator. Think of the Sentry Gun. It operated itself while you were running and gunning or holding down a point. Now picture that gun with an NPC behind it. The principal is the same but the operator of that gun can be knifed or shot. Once the operator (NPC) is killed. The players can use it for a short time until the ammo runs out.




We prototyped this idea, actually. It has a few problems.

1. The AI operate was too easy to kill. Making him harder to kill with more health was irritated for players because it was not easily understood why killing him was harder than killing a player. Even if I dressed him in body armor.

2. Nobody wanted to man the turrets for the same reason they rarely mount turrets we have in the world. You are generally too exposed and a "sitting duck." It's the same problem we had with deployed bi-pods.

I'm not giving up on this idea just yet, but I wanted to let you know that we have been considering how to make this work.

Vahn

Not to change the subject or hijack the thread, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately and thought I'd ask you guys to weigh in.

I'm not a huge fan of having Shotguns, Machine Pistols, and Handguns all as secondary weapons. I think this has:

-eliminated the role of the pistol as the "Oh Crap!" out of ammo quick switch weapon for the most part and generally lets you carry a lot of firepower.
-minimized the importance of finding a gun to pick-up (Scavenger Pro also a culprit)

I do like Launchers as secondaries instead of as Perk weapon.

Am I going to beat up by angry MP fans the world over if I go back to our roots a bit? What if only Handguns and Launchers were secondaries? Interally, most people think you shouldn't be able to have a Shotgun or a Machine Pistol as a secondary. Opinion is split if they believe if it is: NONE OF THE ABOVE, Just Shotguns, or Just Machine Pistols [as secondaries].

What do you think?

Vahn

3vilRob wrote:I don't know if anyone has suggested this, but anyway: What about having a knife as your secondary?



I have something cooking about this just for you, 3vilRob. I can neither confirm or deny what it is. It's Classified.

That's a fun way of saying I'm not allowed to talk specifics about anything.

8feet wrote: NO game ending killstreak



You won't get an argument from any of us on this one.

Vahn

Discuss.

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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by Horrorman on Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:56 pm

yea it seems Vahn is a cool guy, i read all his comments and was following the whole thread...
at least we know the DevĀ“s are watching the forums there, and listen to us Thumbs up
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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by KAIZER SOSA on Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:08 pm

Right now I'm multi-tasking at the moment so I'll edit this post later on this evening and get into the details but words cannot express my appreciation for bringing this over here Mattks...

Very informative and delightfully surprising stuff here, it has honestly made my day... Very Happy
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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by DitkaKenobi on Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:50 pm

This gives me very high hopes for COD7. I'm glad that they seem to be annoyed by the very same things that I am annoyed by. Awesome! u rock
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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by Gosu71 on Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:43 am

Interesting stuff.

I myself have removed my *IW Fanboy T-Shirt* and am looking forward to CoD 7.
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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by Horrorman on Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:33 am

Gosu71 wrote:Interesting stuff.

I myself have removed my *IW Fanboy T-Shirt* and am looking forward to CoD 7.

same here...
IW did a good job with MW, but they screwed it all up with MW2.
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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by kingchris20 on Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:49 am

Thanks for the post Mr. MaTtKs, this has alot of interesting stuff. I am not a big fan of the multiple killstreaks, I liked the old 3,5,7 from the old days.

Knife as a secondary, this sounds very interesting but I'm not sold on it yet, we'll just have to see what they have cookin'!

Bayonets sound good to replace "commando", but I still want my "no fall damage" as some sort of perk!!!

I am all for pistols or launchers only as secondaries, the shottys and machine pistols are just overkill......LoL

All in all, I am liking the sound of these posts from Vahn, it sounds like somebody is actually paying attention to us!
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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by KNO1ATALL on Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:24 am

Yeah, after the mess IW has created with MW2, I'm ready to see what Treyarch has up their sleeves. I LOVED World At War, if it wasn't for the server problems I would consider it an equal ( or quite possibly a superior to) the infamous COD4.
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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by MaTtKs on Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:35 am

Gosu71 wrote:Interesting stuff.

I myself have removed my *IW Fanboy T-Shirt* and am looking forward to CoD 7.
Put your shirt back on pasty man! Razz

On topic though, it does indeed look like the team at Treyarch is not only paying attention to the suggestions being given, but it also seems like they've been paying attention to what the community does and does not like in regards to MW2.

Very smart move imo.

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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by lawtondannyboy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:00 pm

At least it will be better than MW2. Very cool.
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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by lukavelic on Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:14 pm

Interesting.

Off topic: I just went to CoD HQ after almost 5 months and I see my points and everything has been reset. Why's that?

EDIT: Everything got reset O.o No posts or anything.

EDIT2: My accounts still there but I can't login to it because when I tried to log in it asked me to fill up my Activision details and I entered X-Sync instead of X Sync in the username field and by that I made a new account with the same e-mail. Now I can't access my old one at which I have 1600 posts and I'm a Lt. Matt, can you delete X-Sync?
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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by Amnesty on Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:05 pm

Nice info Matt :p

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Re: Treyarch MP Developer On CoD7

Post by EagleEye on Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:37 pm

I like his points about some of the gameplay ideas. I've always had faith in Treyarch, and I can't wait for more information on Call of Duty 7.

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